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  #31 (permalink)  
Old May 18th, 2012, 02:23 PM
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The trip start in Rome May 4th, the second drill was in Lisbon on May 12 (8 days later). Both people went to the first and were fully drilled.

The woman told her travel agent that she did not hear the announcements on the second drill. I can believe this to be true since I have been on the ship and I can tell you that it is designed for maximum quietness. Unless an announcement is switched to sound in your roon you will not hear it.

I don't know if the announcement went into her room, but I know staff people make mistakes in switching PA systems all the ime and often put announcements into rooms that should not go there, and fail to switch in the ones that should go there. All I know is that she said she did not hear the announcements.

Officers did go to her room to raise her. It seems likely that she was not too happy to see the officers demanded that she go to the drill - she was warned and she did reply "I don't want to go" and "My husband is there." (That information came from the cruise line). She may have also said she felt ill - they didn't say, but her travel agent told me that was the situation.

Either way - in my mind the customer is always right, especialy on a lux line like Seabourn. In the spirit of the rule she was fully drilled just eight days prior. This was a repeat of what she had already done - so the entire argument about the "importance of safety drills" etc is really NOT an issue in this case. She knew the drill.

As I have stated, if you go to the Seabourn site they do sell cruises of different lengths starting on the same date. You can book one, two or three segments as a "single cruise" on almost any itinerary at the Seabourn site (check it out). This is the ship they are on...

Cruises to Arabia, Africa, Europe, the Caribbean and the world on Seabourn, one of the best cruise lines=

Note there are two cruises starting on the same date - different lengths. In their mind they were on a single cruise - they did not change staterooms.

I personally am trying to stay away from conjecture, I don't think it is appropriate to try to read someone's mind or to characterize them with name-calling or other negative impressions when you really know nothing about them (reminds of a certain luxury travel blogger we once had to deal with here).

But if I had to surmise the worst possible scenario for this couple, giving these people no benefit of the doubt, I think it boiled down to a battle of wills where the ship said "you will go" and she said "I'm not going" and so they kicked both of them off the ship.

So Seabourn proved they can have the last word. But somehow that just doesn't warm my heart any.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 02:40 PM
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And no, travel insurance will definitely not cover you if you get thrown off of a ship.

I have to say that I find characterizations of these people as "spoiled, rich, snobby, feeling-entitled, etc." as completely irrelevent to the matter.

To even say such things about them is reverse snobbery. It doesn't matter how they acted even if you disapprove. All that matters is the facts.

And I don't dispute that Seabourn had the right to put them off the ship. I just see it as an over-reaction to a drama that probably plays out on allmost every lifeboat drill held.

I see there is now a Zero Tolerance Policy for lifeboat drills - and I respect that and I want to be clear on that.

But when you have older people who have been cruising for 20 years who pay a large amount of money to go on a ship that sells itself as specializing in personal service, and that line suddenly changes its policy and uses that to treat these people like some kids in a multi-plex who tried to sneak into a second movie - throwing them out the back door and keeping their money - that is not the cruise industry I grew up with.

Show some respect, to the elderly, to your loyal customers, and to your brand name. That's all I have to say now.

Sorry if I have belabored this point - but I personally think it matters for Seabourn. I want them to succeed, and I don't think sweeping this matter under the rug is going to happen or that as it stands it leaves a good impression.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 04:24 PM
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Breaking News:

Seabourn will give a refund to the couple bounced off of Sojourn for missing a boat drill.


Travel Agent Steve Shulem just told CruiseMates that the couple that was just left in Lisbon by the captain of the Seabourn Sojourn will get a refund they for number of days they will miss on the cruise they had planned.
The elderly couple (husband 90, wife 84) was ejected from Sojourn on May 12 in Lisbon, Portugal, against their will when the wife claimed she was too ill to attend the second boat drill of her trip. The couple was warned that they would be put off the ship if she did not comply, but the woman still refused to budge. As a result, when the husband returned from the drill, which he did attend, he found staff members already packing his and her clothes so they could be put off the ship.

Shulem says that he spoke personally to Seabourn president Rick Meadows and that Seabourn had thought about the issue and decided a compromise was in the best interest of everyone. The exact refund will be the per diem amount of the cost of the cruise for the number of days the couple will not be on the ship.

In addition - Shulem once again reiterated the importance of getting the word out that cruise lines are cracking down on safety in all respects and that includes the passenger conduct. "When it comes to cruise ship safety, passengers are going to have to realize that they are now part of the process. They have the responsibility to do their part to make and keep cruise ships safer."
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Old May 18th, 2012, 04:36 PM
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Seabourn had thought about the issue and decided a compromise was in the best interest of everyone. This translates to the line not wanting any more bad publicity.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 04:56 PM
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Fieldmouse...

So you are using the "yeah, she was raped, but the way she was dressed she was asking for it" defense?

In fact, the husband had no idea he was about to leave - until he came back into the room and saw staffmembers putting his personal belongings into suitcases.
Ahhhh Paul...I always enjoy a spirited discussion either on the web or in person as you can tell from my posts. And I have never had any difficulty following your line of thinking/argument or opinion. I may not always agreed (always agreeing doesn't make for interesting interactions)...but your reasoning is usually logical and clear...but I have to admit this time i'm stumped by the above comment to my post. I re-read my post several times, and don't see the analogy's application. Might have missed it....soooooo how is it like 'she was raped but........?"
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Old May 18th, 2012, 05:02 PM
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I guess one can try and justify this issue in many diffeent ways. Where was this outrage when the Veenedam passenger was escorted off the ship?? Sorry, what's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

High end, vs mid level priced ship..elderly vs young....the rules should apply to all, or none.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 06:45 PM
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I've felt, with this story, that something is missing that we are not hearing....Yes, always 2 sides to the story, may-be we'll find out at some point.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
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I guess one can try and justify this issue in many diffeent ways. Where was this outrage when the Veenedam passenger was escorted off the ship?? Sorry, what's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

High end, vs mid level priced ship..elderly vs young....the rules should apply to all, or none.
Linda - I keep saying it but you don't seem to hear me - These people were on 3 back to back cruises and had already been to the drill for their stateroom just 8 days earlier.

That is acompletely different scenario. I have been saying all along I back the policy, just not the way it was handled in this specific case. Sorry, maybe you didn't read the whole thread but your statement doesn't make sense based on everything I have said so far.

Anyway - Seabourn finally came to the same conclusion I did and refunded the balance of their cruise. I could act like a big shot and take some credit for that - but that kind of egotistical horseplay is for other people.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 07:31 PM
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The phrase "well, maybe she was raped but she was asking for it" is an expression to say that the someone has been wronged outside of the law but they deserved it because of the way they were acting.

You said these people must have been acting like (I forget what you said) but you implied their demeanor alone was enough to get them kicked off a ship. We live in a free society, where people can dress and act the way they want but it doesn't mean they are guilty of anything.

Sorry you didn't get the analogy - it is fairly well known argument against that "guilt due to attitude" line of thinking.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 08:00 PM
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Paul, I know that,and it doesn't change my position. Just my opinion.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 08:09 PM
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I am happy to hear that the cruiseline did refund the remaining moneys for the days they missed by being kicked off the ship, that does say something...
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Old May 18th, 2012, 09:49 PM
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Being put off the ship didn't just happen, it wasn't a complete surprise. We can be sure the Staff most likely talked and tried to reason with the couple, then finally told them if they didn't comply that they would have to be put off the ship. Because the consequences of non-compliance was so serious, likely the final decision was made with the Captains knowledge. Evidently the money wasn't an issue to for this couple or they would have complied! (like...who wants to lose $30,000? Give me a pillow, stick me in a wheelchair, and push!!!)

Just because a person is elderly doesn't mean that they are 'sweet' 'lovable' Andy Griffin types. Elderly passengers can be just as fierce in a buffet line as a 30yr old and wipe you out in the race for the ship's last deck chair. They can be cranky and difficult to deal with. There are older passengers who take advantage of the fact that because of their age and apparent frailness they are given 'great' latitude by staff & crew on board ship. Some get away with 'mouthing' off, rudeness, demands, etc. that would not be tolerated in someone younger. (we tend to say, "oh, they're old they don't mean it" or "they really don't know what they're doing"...Excuse me, sometimes really THEY DO!)

We cannot be sure what really went on in the cabin when the couple was ask to leave the ship, but we do know they made an INFORMED choice. We make choices everyday and there are always consequences...sometimes they're good and sometimes bad. For some the consequences can cost $30,000.
Didn't mean to imply that bad conduct was the reason the couple had to vacate the ship...I meant that we don't want to generalize any elderly person or persons as frail, defenseless and unable to communicate their wishes in a strong manner because they can and do. And just MAYBE this couple did that, stated their position and preferred to take the money hit rather than bend. We should give the ships crew a little benefit of the doubt too. When they have to enforce unpopular rules it can't be pleasant for them either. It nice the couple were given some of their cash back...BUT my over all position remains the same.

Thanks for the explanation of the 'guilt due to attitude'...I'd never heard it before!
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Old May 21st, 2012, 10:43 PM
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The woman might have been really sick? What about that? It wasn't like she hadn't attended the initial muster drill.
I think this was totally handled wrong, They were never advised of the consequences for not showing up, if what I am reading is right.

If someone is too sick to attend a muster drill, couldn't the crew and her go over the procedures after she felt better? After all, isn't Seaborn supposed to be a luxery line that prides itself on personal attention to all your needs? This, you would think, would be exceptionally true for a loyal Seaborn customer.

Yes, rules are rules, I accept that! All I am saying here is that a little common curtosy could be extended to someone who wasn't feeling well and had already attended 1 muster drill already on that cruise.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 11:34 AM
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Seabourn and it's new parent company HAL both have the same passenger safety drill policy and the same procedures.
They both announce several times before the drill that EVERYONE must attend the drill. Anyone not attending cannot sail.
Then they announce several times that anyone feeling ill should contact the front desk to inform the staff that they will not be attending the drill.

So the woman claimed that she did not hear the announcements about the drill, but then stated that her husband was attending the drill???
Did he hear the announcement?
If he didn't, how did he know to go?
Wouldn't you expect that he might have mentioned something to his wife?
This story doesn't really smell very good.

On my ship, we have a dozen or so passengers every week who claim to be ill so they do not have to attend the safety drill.
Unfortunately, those "ill" passengers are sitting in the bar, having cocktails.

Martin Luther King had a great quote:
"American is a 7 day country".
He claimed that everyone in America remembers something - and usually gets all excited about it- for a maximum 7 days. Then they forget about it completely and move to a new subject.

Safety drills fall into that category.

Ask any passenger - at any point in the cruise - to tell you his muster station number. 9 out or 10 have no idea what you are talking about.
5 out of 10 cannot even tell you the name of the ship they are traveling on.

Last week on my ship, over half the passengers rated the shore tender services as "Poor".
We don't have any tender services on this itinerary.
When I asked one of the passengers why he had rated it poor, he replied that he didn't know what tendering is, so decided to rate it poor anyway.
When you are dealing with large numbers of people who have left their brains at home, it becomes even more important to treat them like children, in the interests of safety.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 01:16 PM
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Wow Bruce...

That is an interesting post. I don't disagree with your point of view, but it is a pretty raw look at how crewmembers can view passengers - it certainly doesn't make me feel very warm and fuzzy about taking a cruise if that is how I am going to be seen.

But I will share this with you and the world - having also worked aboard cruise ships I do know how many crewmembers (staff, officers, what have you) come to view the passengers after awhile.

Yes, many guests on a cruise do seem brain dead - but they are on a cruise! The ones who don't have much cruise experience don't know what they don't know, and those who DO have the experience feel much like you do about the rest.

It is precisely because I know how passengers become viewed by the staff and sometimes even land-based management that I stand up for the consumers. Do we really want this industry going down the road of treating its guests the way the airlines now treat flyers? It will be the death of the cruise industry. We must maintain a high level of respect for cruise guests no matter what - because that is what makes cruising different from airlines, Disneyland and Las Vegas.

Why would people rate the tender experience as poor on a cruise with no tenders? Because they just don't like tenders in general. Hey, these are guests filling out these forms, not employees. If they don't want to "take a test" and follow the directions at the top tha they are just rating "this cruise" in the survey that is their right. Are you paying them to participate in that survey? No, but one in 3000 might win a tote bag!

The bottom line here is that I am standing up for the rights of cruise passengers to enjoy themselves - and that last place I want the cruise industry to go is towards less tolerance and more regimentation. We just spent ten years reversing that misconception.

I really wonder what impact all this recent publicity about boat drills is doing to the general public perception of cruises. The industry seems to think they are restoring some faith by the public in their ability to provide safety. But my guess is that they are only make cruising sound more dismal and regimented than ever.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 04:14 PM
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I also have never thought about that, having passengers say they are ill to avoid going to the muster drill. I would guess, the crew does see that from time to time, how to you know if it is for real?
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 07:56 PM
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Of all the muster drills we've experienced, the best, and most efficient has been on HAL.
HAL conducted the muster drill as something serious. The Staff, crew and officers act serious and so the passengers take it seriously. (at least on the ships we've been on)

On one Alaskan cruise (RCCL) we were on, the Captain decided not to go into Glacier Bay because there were too many floating ice bergs and it was dangerous. He made a clear announcement that for the safety of the ship and passengers we wouldn't be going into this area. We could see in the distance other cruise ships trying to tac safely out the bay...with these visuals in front of us, on OUR ship, many passengers were heard LOUDLY grumbling about the decision! It was for THEIR safety!! Now if he had went ahead and gone into the bay and hit an ice berg...you betcha they would have sued because "the captain should have known better"...Gosh you just can't please people!!!

There will always be those that resent regulations, rules, etc. UNTIL something bad happens, then it's find the deepest pockets and sue. These types want absolute freedom from the hinderance of having to be responsible for the consequences of THEIR decisions and actions.

In any profession, that has to deal with the public on a daily basis, I'm sure it can strain your patiences, understanding and tact. I can only imagine what its like to deal with hundreds of new passengers every week or so...hundreds of different wants, likes, dislikes, cultures, and some who have 'Entitlement' attitudes.

I've seen passengers scream at the crew, and the crew member just has to stand there and take it, because it means their job. Nobody in any other job would take that kind of verbal abuse. Actually no one should have too.

My point: On most cruises, passengers are treated royally, with respect and courtesy. Of course there are exceptions, but that is what it is, an exception.
I cannot imagine that the elderly couple aboard Seabourn were treated with any less. Yes, what happened to them was surprising and a wake-up call to others who may think that they can flaunt regulations 'because we can'....I guess Seabourn and HAL are saying, "Guess again".
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 08:45 PM
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Paul,
I must say that I am completely with you on this issue.
The cruise industry has created it's own monster.

We have decided to market our product to the lowest common denominator in the name of higher profits.
Then we get the trailer park crowd onboard and cannot understand why they cannot behave or dress well.
We assume that they did their homework and know how things work on a cruise. Many did not and do not. Many have never even stayed in a hotel before; certainly never on a ship.
We push a few drinks on them and then we cannot understand why they don't even know which end of the ship is the "pointy end".
A large percentage of our passengers do not even speak their native English very well. We are then expecting them to understand French dining and food terms. It's not really fair.

In the orignal Men In Black movie, Tommy Lee Jones says, "Individual people are quite smart, but put them into a group and they turn into stupid spooky animals". I couldn't agree more. Put a few thousand people on a mass market cruise ship and they get that "herd mentality". Then lightning strikes and we have a stampede.

I was on a long-haul jumbo jet flight recently from London to Auckland.
We stopped in New Delhi for fuel.
After takeoff, an air hostess approached me. The only empty seat on the airplane was next to me in First Class. An elderly passenger was not feeling well and needed to be more comfortable. They asked if I minded if they placed her next to me. Of course not.
After they moved her, the air hostess telephoned the flight deck. The engineer needed to push some button to turn on an oxygen vent near our seats so that this pasenger could use a special oxygen mask.

The engineer pushed the wrong button.

Suddenly all the oxygen masks all over the airplane came falling down. A recorded voice announced over and over that the plane had become depressurized and was diving down to a safe level. The voice repeated many times that all passengers should put on the oxygen masks as they had been taught many times.
The entire airplane erupted in chaos. People were screaming, running up and down the aisles, wailing, moaning and generally hysterical.
The air hostess, the sick woman next to me, and I were the only passengers who were aware that this was a mistake, and there was actually no danger.
We watched in amazement as NOBODY actually put on their oxygen masks. This chaos went on for a good 20 minutes before the Captain announced that there was nothing wrong, and everyone could calm down.

If it had been a real emergency, many of those crazy people would have died.

How many times do you think the average traveler on that airplane had seen or heard the standard safety drill at the beginning of a flight?
50 times? 100 times??

Yet NOBODY remembered what to do with the oxygen masks in what appeared to be a real emergency.
Would it be wiser to tell them less often, hoping they would remember?
Would it be wiser to tell them even more often, hoping to drill the information into their brains?
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 10:28 AM
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Hey Paul

I understand where you are coming from and where you are going.

The real issue here is the seven burst of the ship's whistle to allow the muster drill to be performed without incident.

When a crew member responsible for the drill evacuation reported the passenger not present during the muster drill, the staff took reasonable measures to allow correction.
I would imagine an officer was present and made order to attend the muster drill and warned her of two choices before being removed from the ship.

The passenger did have a choice at that point.

I would expect the Captain was not to be challenged by a passenger claiming not to have heard the ship's whistle for the life boat drill, which I see as the issue.
Her credibility was compromised after she made claim of not hearing the whistle.
The husband had no say so in the matter after crew confirmed his attendance at the muster drill.
The key card will register on the master system as to entry/exit times from cabin.

Any medical claim from that point forward was not acceptable.

A report was made on the incident and then the Captain used his authority to remove the couple without any further delay.

This is a case of supreme authority by a Captain overruling any challenge.

If a report was made to an officer concerning her medical condition prior to the muster drill or she visited the infirmary, this may have a completely different outcome.

This was a control issue and the passenger was in no position to disobey a direct order without suffering the ultimate penalty.

I must say this is extreme and I will always choose the offer, which serves in my best interest.
In this case is was a direct order.

Last edited by Dannyboy; May 23rd, 2012 at 10:33 AM.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 10:46 AM
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Bruce...

That is quite the story. FWIW, when I go on a plane I actually do look to see which exits are closest to me, and I do keep my seatbelt fastened all the time.

And if I was instructed to put on a facemask I have seen the demonstration for putting it on yourself first, and then your child (or someone acting like a child) second.

In other words, I do pay attention. I also think there are two kinds of cruisers - the hysterical masses you just described, and the experienced cruisers who do already know where to find lifevests, and who do know that if there is a real muster drill that there will be crewmembers about every 30 feet telling you which way to go as long as you have your keycard (which denotes your muster station).

I was just on a ship and I noticed the info behind my door showed a crew staircase as the primary escape route. Having been in crew areas (like you) I took note that in a real emergency that was my fastest way to the lifeboats, even though during the drill I was instructed to walk a considerably longer distance to the passenger staircase (my cabin was fully forward, so you can guess how much closer the crew stairs were to me than the forward of two passenger elevator banks).

So, the cruise industry is about to really crack down on passengers when it comes to lifeboat drill. It certainly can't hurt. I just hope it actually helps.

But in the end I still have to say putting the focus on passengers to the point where you will put them off the ship with no refund if they miss a drill - even for a good reason - just hits me as displaced focus.

Passengers didn't cause the Concordia accident, the captain did. Panic broke out on Concordia because the captain didn't call "abandon ship" until it was already sinking. Not the passenger's fault. Abd there were people who had never been drilled at all who were causing most of the chaos. IN this case the people in question had already been drilled.

Personally, I have enough drill experience that I would most likely be the one helping people put on vests and directing them to their stations - ans mostly calming down the panicky ones - because I am as well trained as any crewmember. I think there are a lot of experienced cruisers like me.

But as someone pointed out in earlier posts - there have been other incidents, and in all of them where muster was called, the passengers assembled in an expeditious and orderly fashion - most of the more experienced cruisers are not idiots, they are intelligent people who know all about boat drills.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Chafkin1 View Post
Paul,
I must say that I am completely with you on this issue.
The cruise industry has created it's own monster.

We have decided to market our product to the lowest common denominator in the name of higher profits.
Then we get the trailer park crowd onboard and cannot understand why they cannot behave or dress well.
We assume that they did their homework and know how things work on a cruise. Many did not and do not. Many have never even stayed in a hotel before; certainly never on a ship.
We push a few drinks on them and then we cannot understand why they don't even know which end of the ship is the "pointy end".
A large percentage of our passengers do not even speak their native English very well. We are then expecting them to understand French dining and food terms. It's not really fair.

In the orignal Men In Black movie, Tommy Lee Jones says, "Individual people are quite smart, but put them into a group and they turn into stupid spooky animals". I couldn't agree more. Put a few thousand people on a mass market cruise ship and they get that "herd mentality". Then lightning strikes and we have a stampede.

I was on a long-haul jumbo jet flight recently from London to Auckland.
We stopped in New Delhi for fuel.
After takeoff, an air hostess approached me. The only empty seat on the airplane was next to me in First Class. An elderly passenger was not feeling well and needed to be more comfortable. They asked if I minded if they placed her next to me. Of course not.
After they moved her, the air hostess telephoned the flight deck. The engineer needed to push some button to turn on an oxygen vent near our seats so that this pasenger could use a special oxygen mask.

The engineer pushed the wrong button.

Suddenly all the oxygen masks all over the airplane came falling down. A recorded voice announced over and over that the plane had become depressurized and was diving down to a safe level. The voice repeated many times that all passengers should put on the oxygen masks as they had been taught many times.
The entire airplane erupted in chaos. People were screaming, running up and down the aisles, wailing, moaning and generally hysterical.
The air hostess, the sick woman next to me, and I were the only passengers who were aware that this was a mistake, and there was actually no danger.
We watched in amazement as NOBODY actually put on their oxygen masks. This chaos went on for a good 20 minutes before the Captain announced that there was nothing wrong, and everyone could calm down.

If it had been a real emergency, many of those crazy people would have died.

How many times do you think the average traveler on that airplane had seen or heard the standard safety drill at the beginning of a flight?
50 times? 100 times??

Yet NOBODY remembered what to do with the oxygen masks in what appeared to be a real emergency.
Would it be wiser to tell them less often, hoping they would remember?
Would it be wiser to tell them even more often, hoping to drill the information into their brains?

An order to attend a muster drill or be put off the ship was the issue
She did not have a third option and the crew acted after she made her decision not to attend.
I am not saying this is fair, but in retrospect she was warned of the next course of action before she made two claims for not attending.
She first stated she did not hear the announcement, then secondly used medical reasons to avoid attending the muster drill.
These were the reasons her and her husband where removed from the ship.

Anyway, I sure will learn from their mistake.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 12:50 PM
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Don't you think that if this elderly passenger was REALLY not well and the husband was concerned he would have taken her to the infirmary rather than leaving her ALONE in the cabin while he went to the Muster Drill?

If not her husband, then at least when the crew who went to check on her, if they had seen her in even a little distress or uncomfortable, at this woman's age, they certainly would have taken her to the infirmary to be checked on by a nurse or doctor. They would not have just arbitrarily put them off without sufficient cause. There has been no reports that I know of, that once off the ship, she was seen by a doctor for not being well. Or that she was so traumatized by the incident that she went to a doctor, E.R. or hospital.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 05:06 PM
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Fieldmouse,
Yea, I was thinking the same thing....I think we all agree, there may be more to the story than we are hearing....

One time, after getting to a Princess cruise, (we had used their air program), we boarded the ship during the muster drill. Once we located our cabin, our attendant was there and told us to just wait in the cabin, since it already started...That was the only time I didn't attend the drill, also the last time I would use any cruiseline air...At least they knew the flight was delayed..
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Old May 25th, 2012, 03:19 PM
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Rules are rules - take the consequences if they are not followed. Been to every life boat drill for the last 57 cruises - that is EXACTLY what they are LIFE!!!! drills!! Can't stand it when people are not paying attention and regarding them as silly or inconsequential. Being an ex-flight attendant I am keenly aware of safety proceeding - as is my ex-pilot husband.
Again, rules are set in place for a reason and safety is the responsibility of all aboard.
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Old May 25th, 2012, 03:25 PM
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Welcome Pitch....

None of us are disputing the importance of safety drills, we were disputing the decision made in this particular case where the couple had already been drilled - and what she was asked to attend would have been an exact repeat of the earlier drill just 8 days prior.

Ships drills are important, but not so complicated that you need review after eight days.

And although it makes you mad when people don't pay attention, if you paid $30,000 for 3-leg direct and someone said to you at the beginning of the second leg "you didn't pay attention to our (second) drill so you will be getting off the plane and we'll be keeping the balance of your money" would you not be a little upset?
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Old May 26th, 2012, 12:44 PM
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Cruising has become so common place, so easy, we tend to forget it still has certain dangers.

You're out at sea...on a ship...IF the ship catches fire, you can't just call 911 and a fire truck come quickly to your rescue...IF you have a heart attack or any other serious illness your life literally may depend on the medicines that HAVE in the infirmary, and the skill of that one doctor and nurse.

What would be a slight inconvenience on land can become deadly serious at sea...(e.g. a small kitchen fire...at sea, any fire!)

So, no safety drill, muster drill should be taken nonchalantly.

And NO passenger/passengers can be allowed to challenge the authority of the Captain...doesn't matter if its regarding a land tour or muster drill. How could the Captain be expected to maintain order within the crew/staff and passengers? The staff and crew do the muster drill every single time! What if one of the crew decided...'hey...I just went through this stupid drill...I don't feel good, I'm not going to do it'. That crew/staff member would immediately be put off the ship. No question he knows the drill, but he cannot challenge the Captains authority...ever! That kind of precedent cannot be allowed.

The Captain IS the authority on board a ship...he is 'personally' held responsible for each passengers safety...and even if YOU don't feel that way, he feels that way and if nothing else he is morally responsible.

In view of the above...can we reasonably expect that there be alterations to rules, regulations that are put in place for a specific reason and affect thousands to be changed ad hoc for one couple or a few 'cage rattlers'? Or an exception be made because it is brought to the Captains attention that some are being inconvenienced?

(Our friends who are ex-pax's and live in Mexico...they commented that they've been rear-ended in their car several times because in that city 'STOP' signs are not viewed as laws but as just 'suggestions'. Is this what we want...laws that are just 'suggestions' when they inconvenience us?)
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Old May 29th, 2012, 01:41 PM
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It should be noted that the couple has been reimbursed by Seabourn for the unused portion of their cruise. Also, reports are that they were not just left on the pier but taken to a local hotel at Seabourn's expense and ongoing arrangements also assisted by Seabourn.

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Old May 29th, 2012, 06:04 PM
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I was sure to post on our front page, within this thread, and on a new thread, that the couple did receive compensation for the days they missed.

Now - I spoke directly to the travel agent and I did not hear anything being out in a hotel at Seabourn's expense, etc. I am not going to say what I hearsd but it was different.

But the important thing is that I agree that Seabourn did come around and see that the spirit of the "law" was not violated since the woman was already drilled.

More importantly, if you are going to impose new rules for procedures that people have already been dojng for decades, you need to have a little leeway if people do take you that seriously the first time around.

So, the people were made an example and the lesson was learned. I am still glad they got a refund, because otherwise I couldn't condone any business that keeps a customers money at will - not when we are talking about ~ $20,000.
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Old May 29th, 2012, 06:21 PM
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Does anyone know what Seabourn's policy on B2B drill's was before Costa? if having to attend a second time a recent requirement?
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Old May 31st, 2012, 02:16 PM
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It is a recent requirement. I understand that a lady who spends 8 months or so aboard a Seabourn ship--and is now aboard Sojourn--attends every muster.
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