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  #1 (permalink)  
Old February 19th, 2008, 02:10 PM
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Default Castro Resigns; Cruise Lines Rejoice

Fidel has given up power in Cuba to his enchanting brother Raul.

The cruise lines, of course, have been sticking pins in their Fidel voodoo dolls for many years, as they salivated over being able to add Cuba to their tired old Caribbean itineraries.

It'll be interesting to see how many more years it will take for Cuba to open up, and for the cruise lines to build the piers.
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Old February 19th, 2008, 02:17 PM
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Has Fidel's brother been unoffically in power since 2006. Will this resignation really change anything?
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Old February 19th, 2008, 02:20 PM
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I had the same thought AR although I dont belive the island of CUBA will reject cruise lines.........they welcome tourist from all over the world, we have not had the same travel restrictions with regard to Cuba and it is definately a hot spot for Canadians to go to and a place where people are most welcoming and kind and appreciative of tourist and their dollars. Cuba definately markets for tourists, and they love the Candians and Europeans because they, like most of the islands need the tourist and the business that it brings.

AR as I was writting this I was listening to the business report and they reported that Carnival and RCI is anxiously wanting to go to Cuba, and that their passengers including American want this stop. They are waiting till the American GVT relaxes their rules with regard to Americans not being aloud to go to Cuba.

It can only help the people to bring more business.
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Old February 19th, 2008, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katlady
Has Fidel's brother been unoffically in power since 2006. Will this resignation really change anything?
Don't know. The talking heads have been arguing about that all morning. Depends on what brother Raul does now that he's officially in charge.
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Old February 19th, 2008, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by AR
Quote:
Originally Posted by katlady
Has Fidel's brother been unoffically in power since 2006. Will this resignation really change anything?
Don't know. The talking heads have been arguing about that all morning. Depends on what brother Raul does now that he's officially in charge.
Yes Kat, officially he has been in charge, the brother that is. I do think change is coming. They were talking alot about the fact the Next generation will come slowly into power who are in their 40's and 50's. I am not saying this to be political, and I dont want to be, I realize that the people from where I live look at things differantly, But I say with no judgement or anything like that ( hows that for disclaimer!) it may take time for things between America and Cuba to heal because there has been so much "stuff" but I think ( I hope ) it will come to pass eventually. I hope this for only one reason, for the lives of the Cuban people.
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Old February 19th, 2008, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Delfthuis
It can only help the people to bring more business.
You're absolutely right that the question turns not so much on the Cubans allowing us in, but in our allowing ourselves in. You can bet that the cruise lines will be lobbying as hard for that as they did to delay the passport requirements overall.

As for helping the people, that remains to be seen. It's only natural for us to think that more business is good for the people, but it ain't necessarily so in a communist country, nor in an oppressive dictatorship. Look at Labadee, a "barbed-wire" enclave in one of the most dangerous and oppressed countries in the hemisphere. Not a lot of trickle-down goodness for the Haitian people there.
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Old February 19th, 2008, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfthuis
It can only help the people to bring more business.
You're absolutely right that the question turns not so much on the Cubans allowing us in, but in our allowing ourselves in. You can bet that the cruise lines will be lobbying as hard for that as they did to delay the passport requirements overall.

As for helping the people, that remains to be seen. It's only natural for us to think that more business is good for the people, but it ain't necessarily so in a communist country, nor in an oppressive dictatorship. Look at Labadee, a "barbed-wire" enclave in one of the most dangerous and oppressed countries in the hemisphere. Not a lot of trickle-down goodness for the Haitian people there.
Yes AR, Haiti is such a sad place. I have several friends working there as misionarys, teachers and also to train the police force. It is so sad, especially for children, the old, the sick.

I will say Cuba is a little differant in that really movement was really very open here, the ability to talk to all persons, the people were incredibly friendly, grateful, kind and helpful over all. Not every one, no where is perfect, but they were a proud welcoming people.

I think many people in the USA would enjoy this island a great deal. The beaches are beautiful, the food is rather............how do I say it nicely..........OK I wont try but it was "OK", but the people were wonderful.
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Old February 19th, 2008, 03:03 PM
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Default Castro Reigns; Cruise Lines Rejoice

I always heard that Raol was worse than Fidel. Can't see much change for the better with this development.

The cruiselines may be impatient, but I think it'll be a long time before there are good enough relations between the U.S. and Cuba to grant the cruiselines' wishes. Wish that weren't true, though. I'd like to go to Havana before I finally slip on that banana peel!

Judy
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Old February 19th, 2008, 03:36 PM
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Its not the Cubans who are stopping the cruise lines from coming .
they would love the cruise ship to land there.
we have been going to Cuba for many years. and love it`
It is very cheap to go to. At these all encluise resorts. everything is free.
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Old February 19th, 2008, 04:10 PM
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I'm a chicken so I didn't think I would rush to go to Cuba. I would be worried about being attacked. I may have nothing to fear. However, fear is fear and sometimes defies logic.
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Old February 19th, 2008, 06:08 PM
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From what I have heard in the news media for the past two years, Raul has the same ideology that fidel has and that the US government will retain its hardline stance against Cuba because of it. Well, I never planned to go there so it is no sweat off of my back.
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Old February 19th, 2008, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katlady
I'm a chicken so I didn't think I would rush to go to Cuba. I would be worried about being attacked. I may have nothing to fear. However, fear is fear and sometimes defies logic.
Kat, no need to worry, BUT bring your own tea bags, that is something they definately do not have, but then , if you see the stuff I cart to Antigua when visiting family.......They got the money to buy it.......but they are to cheap to spend it! ( but legitamtely the same things costs 1/3 the price here in Canada!) This year was definately things like memory cards and USB sticks and all of that!
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Old February 19th, 2008, 06:30 PM
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isn't Raul older the Fidel ?
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Old February 19th, 2008, 07:31 PM
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Raul has been the de facto president since Fidel's adominal surgery in July of 2006. Of course, as regards Raul, sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.........

I did however get a chuckle out of Fidel's statement that he's resigning as Commander in Chief. Commander in Chief of what...............??

Dean
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Old February 19th, 2008, 07:48 PM
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Raul is 76 according to the talking head son TV. Fidel is 80 something.
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Old February 19th, 2008, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mehawk
From what I have heard in the news media for the past two years, Raul has the same ideology that fidel has and that the US government will retain its hardline stance against Cuba because of it. Well, I never planned to go there so it is no sweat off of my back.
I second that.
It is going to take a lot more than the passing of the brothers to change a mind set that has developed over so many years.
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Old February 19th, 2008, 09:05 PM
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I would like to go to Cuba, and I don't understand why it's off limits to American citizens. China is not exactly a free country but it's ok to go there.

Manuel
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Old February 19th, 2008, 09:11 PM
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In the mid 90's, there was a magazine called South Florida. One issue, which I saved, was totally devoted to Cuba. One statement was made by Carnival, and they said, they would have the first ships into Cuba, anyone else, would be following them into port. Interesting.......

Another fact I found fascinating was, that they had or maybe still have, flights for the families, who still have family there, to go visit. They are allowed a certain amount to bring onboard. Most visitors, dress in many, many, layers. When they arrive, they peel off the layers, and give the clothes to family members.
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Old February 19th, 2008, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel
I would like to go to Cuba, and I don't understand why it's off limits to American citizens. China is not exactly a free country but it's ok to go there.

Manuel
Manuel, it is probably before your time but this is why...

In the fall of 1962, the United States and the Soviet Union came as close as they ever would to global nuclear war. Hoping to correct what he saw as a strategic imbalance with the United States, Soviet Premier Nikita S. Khrushchev began secretly deploying medium range ballistic missiles (MRBM) and intermediate range ballistic missiles (IRBM) to Fidel Castro's Cuba. Once operational, these nuclear-armed weapons could have been used cities and military targets in most of the continental United States. Before this happened, however, U.S. intelligence discovered Khrushchev's brash maneuver. In what became known as the Cuban Missile Crisis, President John F. Kennedy and an alerted and aroused American government, armed forces, and public compelled the Soviets to remove from Cuba not only their missiles but all of their offensive weapons.

This is why we are not friends with Cuba. They wanted to nuke us and the person who wanted to do it is still alive and in power until today.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 12:01 AM
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I say we take them over, make them the 51st state and send cruise ships full of supplies to the impoverished and then build a pier and a new version of Labadee or Coco Cay there! And take their oil if they have any!

Quoting John Belushi, "Let us not forget when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!"
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Old February 20th, 2008, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave the Wave
I say we take them over, make them the 51st state and send cruise ships full of supplies to the impoverished and then build a pier and a new version of Labadee or Coco Cay there! And take their oil if they have any!

Quoting John Belushi, "Let us not forget when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!"
That is an outstanding idea Dave. But we would have to fight Russia, Iran, Venezuela, and China to take over that place. At least we do have an outpost there... Club Gitmo... or the GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE. So, we do have a presence.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 03:03 AM
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Well, then. I beleive it was one of John's comtemporaries, also departed, Rosanne Rosanna Dana (Gilda Radner) who said, ............"Nevermind"
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Old February 20th, 2008, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave the Wave
Well, then. I beleive it was one of John's comtemporaries, also departed, Rosanne Rosanna Dana (Gilda Radner) who said, ............"Nevermind"
Fabulous... Nevermind.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 07:48 AM
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Mehawk: The Cuban Embargo is more due to the fact that when Castro took power he 'acquired' billions in mostly US-held assets 'for the Cuban People', thus hurting the pocketbooks of some very, very important and influential Americans. The Cuban Missile Crisis was secondary to that.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel
I would like to go to Cuba, and I don't understand why it's off limits to American citizens. China is not exactly a free country but it's ok to go there.

Manuel
We also have full diplomatic relations with countries that have even worse dictators and are more repressive than Cuba. It points out the absolute lack of coherence in our foreign policy. We invade Iraq because we believed they had weapons of mass destruction, yet what about North Korea? Cubans are free to enter the country at will, yet Mexicans are "illegal". I am afraid both parties value the Cuban-American vote too much to lift the embargo never mind establishing diplomatic relations. Perhaps the post-Fidel era will bring changes on both sides.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boSeaphus
Mehawk: The Cuban Embargo is more due to the fact that when Castro took power he 'acquired' billions in mostly US-held assets 'for the Cuban People', thus hurting the pocketbooks of some very, very important and influential Americans. The Cuban Missile Crisis was secondary to that.
What you are referring to is true but... it is secondary to the fact which I pointed out. You see, the 'billions" are being held as a form of retaliation for the Bay of Pigs, and the Cuban Missle crisis. I am afraid to say that I am that old but I remember actually having to practice hiding under the desks at school because we thought Cuba was going to nuke us.

No harm no foul. All of these things relate in some way.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 10:07 AM
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Cuba was under US embargo before the crisis in the 60's, due to the grabbing of US assets like land, hotels, estates and the like.
During the crisis, Cuba was blockaded (entirely different) and that blocade was lifted.
The USA had issues with Castro decades before Khrushchev meddled. And the US negotiated with Nikita, not Fidel, during said crisis.
And another point: When you sleep with powerful friends, and become intimately reliant on their aid, if they tell you in no certain terms that they are putting nukes on your soil, you have little choice but to comply. Castro had no options left. The really bad guy resided in Moscow.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 12:06 PM
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Rather than overtake Cuba with force, just let 'em come unabated. In a year or so we can just move into the empty buildings.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 12:20 PM
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I don't think we need force. I think they would welcome us. My step mother was born there and came over around 1960 or whenever they had the Muriel boatlifts.

We could send Hillary down there to be governor or something.
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