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Old November 27th, 2012, 03:31 PM
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Default "Drag Queen" Cruise on Glory getting more publicity

I saw this online, and FB, and it seems Carnival has made a bold step, or a mistep depending on your pov

Thoughts?

Daily Kos: Carnival Cruise Line bans drag on their "Drag*Stars At Sea" cruise

Here is another article on the topic with all the details:

http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/l...rsy/40524.html
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Old November 27th, 2012, 03:40 PM
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John Heald posted this on his page...good for them.
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Within the last 24 hours, we became aware of a miscommunication between Carnival Cruise Lines and AlandChuck.travel, who have booked a large special interest group on the upcoming Carnival Glory cruise departing December 2, 2012.

The group, "Drag Stars at Sea," includes several performances by stars from Logo TV as part of a series of private events onboard. When the group was presented to us we were advised that only the performers would be dressed in drag during the private events. However, we are now aware that this was not clearly communicated to members of the group and therefore anyone who wishes to dress in drag may do so. Please keep in mind that our safety and security procedures require guests to present government-issued ID, and to be recognizably that person.

At Carnival, we are proud to carry more than 4.5 million guests every year and we welcome them all aboard. We do not practice any form of discrimination against the LGBT o...r any other community. We sincerely apologize for the miscommunication and for any unintended offense we have caused.

Given this misunderstanding, anyone on this cruise who wishes to cancel for any reason may do so and will receive a full refund of their cruise fare, as well as reimbursement for any non-refundable travel related expenses.

We constantly strive to provide our guests with a fun and memorable vacation. We look forward to welcoming everyone onboard Carnival Glory and again want to apologize for the misunderstanding and for any offense we have caused.
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Old November 27th, 2012, 05:40 PM
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Some people have expressed Carnival caved in on dress code. If this had not been such a large group, individuals dressed in Drag would not have been an issue at all. We all dress as we please on a cruise, why can't they? We see some mighty interesting (or not) clothing on cruises, including skimpy show dancing attire.
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Old November 27th, 2012, 06:26 PM
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I think parents might have to explain when a kid perhaps asks about: a woman falling out of her bathing suit..a man wearing a tiny speedo, or someone in drag... all these teaching moments might occur.

Someone suggested on his blog, that the lack of communication was between the Ta,and the group,not Carnival.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 02:39 PM
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It is a long story, but it appears the gay group that booked the cruise first changed ships (without pre-approving that with the customers) and put the curise on a ship where there would be regular passengers sailing as well.

At first Carnival told the group "no one can dress in drag outside of the special events" but then people started protesting vociferously on Facebook & other places.

Then Carnival CEO Cahill said "anyone who wants a refund can get one" - this coming from Carnival, not the group, which undoubtedly charged a lot more than the price of a regular cruise.

When people started cancelling big time, Cahill sent out another press release saying "We changed our minds, people can now dress in drag on the ship if they want to..."

But it appears to be too late - people are mad. A special Facebook page has been made: Boycott Carnival - Refund the Drag Race at Sea Cruise!!

And the facebook page of the original Gay travel site is also being flooded: ALandCHUCK.travel
http://www.facebook.com/ALandCHUCK.t...ref=ts&fref=ts

MY question is this - what would Bob Dickinson have done? (The previous, more outspoken CEO of Carnival)....
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Old November 28th, 2012, 02:54 PM
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First the TA tried to spin the Carnival policy by saying "its a rule for everyone, not just drag queens, no one can walk around in a costume on a cruise ship - it's a security issue."

But I don't think the customers bought that. They found out about Carnival Halloween parties and other theme cruises.

This is one reason why (1) such groups should ALWAYS try for full ship charters when possible. They had a lot of people booked - some 1500, that is just right for a small Holland America ship (and HAL does a LOT of charter cruises).

And (2) - when a regular cruiser books a cruise always go to Google and put in the name of your ship, sailing date, and the word "Group" -- if you do "carnival glory december 2 2012 group" you see mentions of this group.

I saw a link for a Celebrity goosip site in my Google search that discusses the chain of events...

1) Carnival sends out a letter to everyone in the group saying "no cross-dressing allowed"

2) after the blowback from that they send out another letter - "we will refund your money if unhappy" - but when people DID start asking for refunds in droves Carnival said...

3) "Just Kidding" you can dress in drag if you want. Just remember its a family ship and you have to carry ID...

As one person commented "with all this backpeddling you could power the ship for the entire cruise."

By the way - The Carnival refund did not incluide ALL of the added fees the travel agents (rightly) tacked on - event fees, etc.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 03:28 PM
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And cancel, many must have. Yesterday and this morning early, an inside cabin was $209. Now it's at $229. Can't beat that! Balconies are at a premium price now.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 04:08 PM
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To be sure - nothing is worse for a cruise line than to have last minute cancellations, - except ones where you have to give a full refund (as promised).

Also - think about all the lost onboard revenue those partying drag queens would have spent. Too bad.

Okay, in truth, - this is already one of the slowest weeks in travel all year, but still, that is a killer price for a cruise.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 04:10 PM
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This exact same thing (well, almost) happened on a group cruise I did in 1992. It was a NASCAR fan cruise for Richard Petty, who had just retired. Initially our group was a full-ship charter on the Royal Majesty, but then a month away they suddenly swapped to the Westerdam with Holland America, and we did not have the whole ship so there were regular passengers aboard too.

So while we weren't waltzing around in women's underwear (to use a Christmas song parody), you did have a definite split of people who were largely southern and blue collar, and most on their very first cruise, versus the other HAL guests who were in the demographic of being retired or older professionals, experienced cruisers, and fairly well off financially. There were no incidents but it was not hard to sense the annoyance some had towards our group. It was a terrible fit but in our case the agency that handled it was responsible for screwing up the Royal Majesty deal and they went looking for any ship with space, and the Westerdam fit the bill.

Thus, it looks like Carnival has a pretty big train wreck on their hands with this cruise.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 04:55 PM
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Just one question dave - exactly how do celebrate Christmas where you live?

Just kidding - I did not see why the cruise was moved from NCL to Carnival. Both cruise lines are "Gay Friendly" so it my guess is that it was more of a psace issue.

1500 is a pretty large group.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 06:12 PM
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Walking Around In Women's Underwear

I fully expect this might be part of a show on this cruise.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter View Post

And (2) - when a regular cruiser books a cruise always go to Google and put in the name of your ship, sailing date, and the word "Group" -- if you do "carnival glory december 2 2012 group" you see mentions of this group.
I've never thought of doing that. Excellent advice! I just did so for my cruises starting next Monday on Royal Caribbean and see that on the first cruise there is a group of amputees aboard and for the second cruise there is a trade group for sports and social clubs aboard.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
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I've never thought of doing that. Excellent advice! I just did so for my cruises starting next Monday on Royal Caribbean and see that on the first cruise there is a group of amputees aboard and for the second cruise there is a trade group for sports and social clubs aboard.
Glad to see it worked for you. I was actually a little surprised it didn't better for the drag cruise (it isn't fool proof, but it helps) - but they really didn't promote on the web that much - and they used different words than "group"
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Old November 29th, 2012, 08:55 AM
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The press release seems to focus on guests being "identifiable" going through security.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 05:12 PM
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Maybe Al and Chuck should have chartered the whole ship instead of a partial charter. Seems to me that's where the confusion lies.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by seadog2 View Post
Maybe Al and Chuck should have chartered the whole ship instead of a partial charter. Seems to me that's where the confusion lies.
It wasn't a partial "charter". Book regular cabins, pay the organizers a little more, this gave priveledges to enter the shows (I think they wore i.d. bands or something). No way could they charter the whole ship without charging outrageous fees to cover the empty cabins not sold.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 08:48 PM
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I believe Paul's article stated that they opted for a "partial charter" where regular passengers would be able to mingle with those there in Drag. I believe they thought they would be able to walk around freely in their costumes. Carnival said no only the people in the theater cast would be able to do this and only in the theater. Carnival back peddled. It is possible to charter a whole ship, Rosie O'Donnell did it with her group with a different cruise line. If people believe in their cause strongly enough, they will pay the price of admission.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seadog2 View Post
I believe Paul's article stated that they opted for a "partial charter" where regular passengers would be able to mingle with those there in Drag. I believe they thought they would be able to walk around freely in their costumes. Carnival said no only the people in the theater cast would be able to do this and only in the theater. Carnival back peddled. It is possible to charter a whole ship, Rosie O'Donnell did it with her group with a different cruise line. If people believe in their cause strongly enough, they will pay the price of admission.
I think we are both sort of right. There was so much miscommunication between the organizers, Carnival, and the intended "show" and it's followers, that it's hard to decipher what actually happened.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 11:29 AM
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I think Carnival was reacting to the fact that this group's agent misrepresented themselves in the beginning.

The group said that only the entertainers would be in drag at their EVENTS...and this is very different from saying our entire group will be in drag every day.

Carnival had every reason to be upset about the fact that this group misrepresented themselves when they booked.

Personally the ONLY thing I hate about Drag Queens is that most of the them look better in heels than I do....
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Old December 5th, 2012, 11:33 AM
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I keep a list (as best I can) of groups that we do not want to cruise with to make sure that we avoid them as much as possible.

For example...DJ could never sail on a cruise with a group of clowns or mascots onboard.

Even Goths are a no go.

Personally, I would never cruise on a Lynard Skynard cruise. LOVE their music ... dislike the crowd that they draw.

We actually changed a cruise to the next one when we realized it was a Lynard Skynard cruise and I am glad we did. I don't want to be on a cruise where windows are being broke by chairs, foul language being screamed in an alcoholic craze...

that does not fit into my definition of a "family cruise line" cruise....
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Old December 5th, 2012, 01:10 PM
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ruthlessboss: So true. This is a learning experience for all of them.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 08:18 AM
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Btw, people who do not care for this kind of thing do not need to be villianized.

I would never book a vacation at Heddonism I or II....but I certainly do not care if someone else does.

Everyone has the right to what will or will not affect their cruise.

Personally, to me it is just like Halloween....but then not everyone looks at it that way.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 11:09 AM
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Welcome to the real world. ff you want to live a sheltered life stay home and FTLOG don't get cable or satellite TV.

Personally I would prefer drag queens to being stuck on a country-western cruise. Now THAT would be Hell. At least drag queens are entertaining.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 01:24 PM
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I think the concern has more to do with the people with kids who do not want to be explaining to their 8 year olds why that man is dressed like a slutty woman and why that other man just grabbed her fake boobs and made a "honk-honk" sound.

Personally, I would rather see Rascal Flatts (and I am not a country music fan) or something with Lynnard Skynyrd (but I love rock music).

I also think that Al & Chuck misrepresented the ground rules to carnival - or to their own guests - (one or the other). The problem happened when Carnival found out there were drag queens fuly expecting to be able to come onboard in drag; but it was not Carnival's duty to contact them and say "nun huh - no can do."

It was Al & Chucks responsibility to handle that communication problem. Carnival should have stayed out of it, and just enforced the rules they notified Al & Chuck about.

However, as so often happenes these days - when there is a FUBAR too many people just prefer to say nothing rather than face the music.

"it's not my fault" "That's not my job" or "Don't talk to me like that, I just work here."
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Old December 13th, 2012, 10:48 AM
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People's imagined rights do not supersede the rights of others to not be discriminated against. Ignoring reality just creates a new generation of ignorant people.

You can only shelter kids for so long before they find out the truth.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 01:44 PM
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I am happy to report that someone with that group came on the Carnival Facebook page and THANKED Carnival for providing them with such a wonderful cruise experience.

So all's well that ends well......

And if my children had been young and on that cruise, I would have just told them they were celebrating a late Halloween!!
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Old December 19th, 2012, 07:58 PM
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There always has to be a line drawn someplace when it comes to morality.... I actually do still know a few parents who don't let their kids watch anything they want on television.

There's a difference between being on a cruise where one guy in drag walks by, and sharing your cruise with a 50% drag queen clientele.

Keep in mind in the end Carnival did let them dress up the way they pleased. That is probably the reason one of them thanked Carnival.

But how many parents of adolescent kids who care about what their kids see thanked Carnival for the same cruise?
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Old December 19th, 2012, 09:12 PM
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I have little doubt there were some whiny, complaining people demanding compensation. I can only hope that Carnival didn't cave.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
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There always has to be a line drawn someplace when it comes to morality.... I actually do still know a few parents who don't let their kids watch anything they want on television.

There's a difference between being on a cruise where one guy in drag walks by, and sharing your cruise with a 50% drag queen clientele.

Keep in mind in the end Carnival did let them dress up the way they pleased. That is probably the reason one of them thanked Carnival.

But how many parents of adolescent kids who care about what their kids see thanked Carnival for the same cruise?

I was always very strict with both my boys (perhaps this is why the FBI said that Josh had one of the cleanest records they had ever seen when they qualified him for the Naval Top Secret clearance earlier this year)...

and while I am not a prude....I have my preferences of what I do and do not want to be around and I HAVE THAT RIGHT (yes in all caps) without being called petty names by jealous children who demand "it is their way or no way".

If we had been on this cruise when my boys were to young to have a discussion on the subject....(as long as it was just dressing up and no sexuality inappropriate behavior)...I would have just told my boys that they were celebrating Halloween late.

It has since been reported by a father (with children onboard) that there was inappropriate sexuality activity in public and in front of children.

THIS SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED. (by gay, lesbian, straight, transgender, cross dressers whatever).

That is where any individual conducting themselves in an inappropriate manner should have been put off the ship or confined to their cabin.

People should know before they board a ship that their conduct must be PG in public around children.

Now what they do outside of the eyes and ears of children is their business....

And IF Carnival is going to advertise itself as a "family" cruise line, this has to be the standard that is maintained.

Everyone has the RIGHT to vacation where they are comfortable and again they have the RIGHT to do this without being called names or judged.....

Tolerance for crossdressing is a TWO WAY STREET....IF those who crossdress or whatever persuasion WANT tolerance...then they should give it back!
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Old December 24th, 2012, 01:18 PM
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Inappropriate behavior, whatever that is, is not defined by sexual orientation, etc.

If people of the opposite sex kissing are okay, yet people of the same sex kissing are not, YOU are the problem, not them.

There will always be those on the fringe who think there should be more or less allowed. It is not up to an individual or even the Westboro Baptist Church to define what is, or is not appropriate.

If people want Disney, they should cruise on Disney. Carnival is a mass market cruise line and the mass market is full of diversity.

I do agree that smokers smoking in no-smoking areas should be put off the ship.
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